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楼主: weiwei29 - 

CANON 15X50 IS 到了,新的玩镜阶段开始了

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发表于 2007-5-13 15:20  | 显示全部楼层
是木星吗,周围有四颗连成一线的星点? 对于天文盲,要补课呀
发表于 2007-5-13 16:35  | 显示全部楼层
是啊,那是它的四颗卫星。
发表于 2007-5-13 17:41  | 显示全部楼层
原帖由 weiwei29 于 2007-5-11 16:54 发表
观察的目标是东南方那颗最亮的星星,以及周围的四颗"卫星",这个星星不知道是什么星,别的星星都是点状,唯独它是一个明亮的圆球.


是木星。
手持观星的话 还是把倍率固定在10倍以下~

[ 本帖最后由 ♂星★闲♀ 于 2007-5-13 17:44 编辑 ]
发表于 2007-5-13 20:51  | 显示全部楼层
国外的稳像望远镜太贵,什么时候才能买到国产的稳像镜呢?
发表于 2007-5-13 22:05  | 显示全部楼层
感觉转让对了人,没几天工夫就整出那么多心得体会,值就一个字
发表于 2007-5-13 22:07  | 显示全部楼层
原帖由 蔡森 于 2007-5-13 20:51 发表
国外的稳像望远镜太贵,什么时候才能买到国产的稳像镜呢?

估计也不会很便宜的. 另一方面,国内的镜子市场实在太小,国产厂商不太敢投资做啊.
发表于 2007-5-13 22:26  | 显示全部楼层
10X42 L IS是我用得最少的镜子。尽管它有漂亮的硬指标和稳像功能。
IS是否在大多数场合都是那么必不可少吗?
我觉得IS对于日常观赏的重要性远低于将望远镜当作工具使用的场合。
IS需要增加体积和重量,需要增加成本。如果这两个增加消失了,当然,所有的镜子都有IS才好。

[ 本帖最后由 wfs55 于 2007-5-13 22:35 编辑 ]
发表于 2007-5-13 22:33  | 显示全部楼层
IS应该是未来望远镜的发展方向之一,随着技术的不断进步,减小体积和重量也是会实现的,成本也会慢慢降低的.但愿吧!
发表于 2007-5-14 07:10  | 显示全部楼层
我在使用这台镜子的时候也感觉到防抖功能开启后有时候清晰有时候略微模糊.
我估计是防抖功能在补偿颤抖时有延迟或过补偿.
发表于 2007-5-14 08:16  | 显示全部楼层
原帖由 阿鼎KGB 于 2007-5-14 07:10 发表
我在使用这台镜子的时候也感觉到防抖功能开启后有时候清晰有时候略微模糊.
我估计是防抖功能在补偿颤抖时有延迟或过补偿.

对的,手持时对固定目标仔细观察,可以感到有微弱的变化,但是如果上架或找个支点把物体固定住观察,可以看到其变化很小,或者没有变化.
可能这个时候就不需要补偿了,所以,也不能排除稳象做补偿时造成的影响.

昨天晚上又把FL 7X42拖出来,作了个比较.
FL 的亮度把我吓了一跳,微弱的路灯下,用15X50难以观察车牌号,太暗了,但是FL让我感觉明亮了很多,我还以为旁边又开了一盏大灯呢.
赶紧又用佳能镜确认了下,的确环境没有变化.
用过佳能一段时间后,换用FL,感觉"亮如白昼" ,FL的亮度可真够厉害的.
观星的表现, 锐度和星点收敛的情况,FL更明亮,扎实程度比佳能厉害.
不过FL有致命的地方,对光害也放大了,视场周围发白,中间发黑,视场不够均匀.视场中间的星星很好,边缘就差了.所以总体观星的性能不如佳能.
但是FL的色彩,锐利,亮度都是佳能无法相比的. 佳能是个实用的镜子,FL是个观赏享受的镜子.

[ 本帖最后由 weiwei29 于 2007-5-14 08:22 编辑 ]
发表于 2007-5-14 08:18  | 显示全部楼层
“佳能是个实用的镜子”
定位很精确!
发表于 2007-5-14 08:35  | 显示全部楼层
是呀,我感觉FL和SLC给我印象最深的地方,不是锐利.而是通透感,纯净度,色彩还原.
这个方面的感受在佳能和尼康的镜子里,无法找到.
不过还是对佳能的光学控制能力,感到很佩服,记得当时看来卡12倍镜子时,把高楼整个塞入视场,边缘和畸变,感觉比较糟糕.佳能镜以15倍的高倍,观看高楼时,像场控制的非常好,观感非常舒服.
所以,欧镜做到高倍,其边缘表现可就大大影响观感了.
我就纳闷,欧镜为什么就不能改进下目镜,加个非球面镜呢,现在随便一个镜头都有非球面镜.成本真的会增加很多吗.
老话重提了,^_^.
发表于 2007-5-15 14:06  | 显示全部楼层
"印象最深的地方,不是锐利.而是通透感,纯净度"
颇有同感!!
通透和纯净有时很难形容,不象边缘 畸变 视场 等硬指标那么直观易见,但给人的感觉就是不一样!

FL"视场周围发白,中间发黑"
是否是消光不力??
发表于 2007-5-15 14:43  | 显示全部楼层
这么深的研究,不易呀!!!! 我可是有点叶公好龙了,没有专功呀. 俺得好好学习...
发表于 2007-5-15 17:26  | 显示全部楼层
FL的确消光不好,FIELDSTOP周围当有低角度反光时,漏光.
可是视场内却很好,几乎没有炫光和鬼影.
发表于 2007-5-16 17:33  | 显示全部楼层
I'll elaborate a bit on the 15x50. Firstly, resolution. Tripod mounted and IS off, my pair through a 3x booster resolves 1.46 arc seconds through the right barrel and 1.3 arcsecs through the left. with stabilization engaged (still tripod mounted) the resolution drops slightly, to 1.64 arcsec. However, since with the IS on the resolution varies somewhat as the vari-angle prisms do their job, the image is at times softer, but this 1.64 was resolvable. Now, the best figures I have measured for traditional binoculars have been 1.84 arcsec for 10x42 Zeiss and Nikon models. If you multiply these figures by the magnification, you get 18-25 arcseconds as what your visual acuity would have to be before the binocular would be the limiting factor. In real life, human eyes can resolve at best some 30 arcseconds, with 60 considered normal 20/20 vision. To make matters more complicated, however, I have found that in order to appear totally satisfyingly sharp, a binocular has to have resolution about twice as good as what my eye can use. The best traditional binoculars do this, but the Canon not quite. Compared to top-class traditional binoculars, it does look slightly less sharp. It is also not as bright, although it is not too dim by any means. The 15x50's light transmission was recently lab measured by Kameralehti in Finland as 78%, same as Leica Trinovid BN 8x42. The best figure, 89%, was Zeiss 7x42 classic, with Swaro EL being just over 81%, and Victory II 8x40 88%. However, with the combination of high magnification and IS, they show more detail under any light conditions, up to near-darkness, than any of the 8-10x42-50 binoculars I have compared them to, and that is a good many. Kameralehti got dismal resolution figures for their Canon, so I suspect they must have had a true lemon there. Contrast is good but not superb, roughly comparable to pre-Ultravid Leicas. There is a rather prominent yellow cast to the image, which I suspect is deliberate since it seems to be largely introduced by the flat filters/dust seal glasses in front of the moving objective lens assemblies. This has a deep blue-purple coating, and I think it is there to increase contrast in mist, rain and snow as well as over very large distances, as it cuts scattered ultraviolet-blue wawelengths. Anyway, in gray conditions as well as over snowscapes, the Canon has excellent contrast. The field is exceptionally flat, with measured resolution dropping only about half to the very edge. Stars remain points virtually over the entire field. So, as a 15x50 binocular without stabilization, I would rate the Canon as very successful overall, and it is perfectly usable should you run out of power.

As an answer to the question of whether birds are enjoyable to view through the Canon, yes. I enjoy viewing a bird and studying it's detail through them immensely. At close quarters such as watching warblers in nearby trees, it is like having a low-power scope with stereo vision and easy, quick aiming. One example of their difference to normal binoculars. I was recently testing a top-class 8x binocular at my summer place. Looking over the lake at the yard of a house some 2 kilometers away with the 8x hand held, I noticed that there was some structure on the lawn, but could not begin to tell what it was except that it was colorfull and about the size of a small doghouse. Switching to the Canon and pressing the stabilizer, I immediately saw that it was an old wooden wheelbarrow which had flowers planted in it. Similar things happen all the time with the Canon.

Why doesn't everyone own them, then? Firstly, because the IS does tricks on you. The more the vari-angle prisms are compensating, the more they must bend the light, the more they introduce what is called "wedge distortion," whereby image softens and chromatic aberration (which is very low in the unstabilized mode) increases. Since the status of the prisms varies constantly, so does the absolute image quality. Since the image does not shake, this change of quality is much more easily perceived than it would be if the binocular would shake like normal binoculars do. If you don't let this bother you and just keep looking, the image usually centers and sharpens in a few seconds, but if you are following fast-flying birds at closer ranges, it is often better to have IS off. When viewing stars, these prism artifacts are pretty visible with the stars changing shape and size until you manage to hold the binocular still and the image settles. With normal binoculars hand held, though, you tend to see a wild dance of points of light instead! Also, as I stated in my earlier post, there seems to be more unit-to-unit quality variations than would be acceptable. "Seasickness" is something that you might experience initially, but as soon as my brain got used to the image behavior, it went away never to come back.

Another problem is that the eyepiece design seems to be super-critical for exactly right placement of the eye to the exit pupil. This means that interpupillary adjustment has to be just right. If your eyes are even slightly off, image is not as sharp. I have indexed my bins for my interpupillary setting, but even so, every time I let someone else mess with the binocular, it takes me considerable time and effort to find just the right setting again. Once I have it nailed, the view is easy and relaxed, and a full day of use tires my eyes and brain less than with normal binoculars. If you don't know what to expect or what to do, or simply don't have the patience, you will see a splendid image only by chance. The eyecups are also awful. They are sloppy and huge, and better left downturned at all times.

There is a tripod mounting thread in the bottom at the center of gravity point, and I often use a Finnstick attached to it so I can hold my hands at waist level.

Thus far, they have survived everything but a one-foot drop, objectives first, to a stone floor. That required a trip to the binocular doctor, who re-located the right barrel's objective lens cell which had slipped on its focus shaft so that I needed all the diopter adjustment range there was although normally I use -0.5. They have been with me in rain and on a sailing trip. After the sailing trip, the first day out with freezing temperatures they fogged up inside. My bin doctor opened them up and filled them with nitrogen, and they've been fine since. Image stabilization seems to work in any temperature - the coldest I have used them has been around -20 C. Focus also remains beautifully smooth (but slow) in any temperature.

They absolutely need a wide neoprene strap (mine comes from Fujinon FMTRCSX) and a proper eyepiece rainguard (same source, only one I've seen that fits).

In summary, while far from perfect, the Canon is in many ways a superior product and, if you give it time and get a goot unit, highly addictive.

Kimmo
发表于 2007-5-16 17:39  | 显示全部楼层
BIRDFORUM上找到一片很详细的测评稳象镜的文章.
文中提到,防抖启动的确会导致分辨率的轻微下降,以及棱镜偏移造成短暂的轻微模糊变化.
当然对佳能的光学素质还是很赞赏的.

不知道 12X36的二代,10X42 L的定点观察,有无此现象.
不过15X50,18X50可没有第二代.
对新出的8X25的稳象镜,比较有兴趣,请PANHOLD帮我询个价.
发表于 2007-5-16 17:43  | 显示全部楼层
我发现10X42L IS稳像功能启动以后,焦点轻微偏移,基本上不影响观察。做调整以后,清晰度与关闭稳像功能时并无二致。
发表于 2007-5-16 17:53  | 显示全部楼层
原帖由 weiwei29 于 2007-5-16 17:39 发表
BIRDFORUM上找到一片很详细的测评稳象镜的文章.
文中提到,防抖启动的确会导致分辨率的轻微下降,以及棱镜偏移造成短暂的轻微模糊变化.
当然对佳能的光学素质还是很赞赏的.

不知道 12X36的二代,10X42 L的定点 ...


8X25又出了新款么?我对8X25没兴趣,换个别的吧。呵呵。

[ 本帖最后由 panhold 于 2007-5-16 17:55 编辑 ]
发表于 2007-5-16 17:59  | 显示全部楼层
不是新的,看到8x25的稳象,比较感兴趣.

我看到对于12x36 II的评测,也有类似的现象存在.如果10X42没有此现象,那可真是顶级镜用了顶级技术啦? 这个稳象技术还有差别? 没想明白.
不过,这样也好,大家对稳象镜的一些小问题,更清楚了.

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